Maitreya: Yes, he said to God, "May you take this cup from me? I do not want to go through with it." That was not submission. "Thy will, not mine," is submission. He went through with it anyway. That's why when he came back the next lifetime, he brought the teaching of submission and surrendering. He learned a little more about God's ways.

Of course, his mission was completely different then. Each time the Messiah comes he has a different mission to perform. However, people usually realize his station after he is gone. That's why after they killed Esa, then people started loving him and being so devotional toward him.

I've seen devotional people. We've had a couple of them here in the Mission, they're beautiful. Really the only one who can completely bound God is the devotional person. When someone with that devotion goes to God, God is completely helpless. He says, "What do you want? I'll provide everything for you." However, if they doubt, they fall hard. It can be a very dangerous path because they don't have anything else but their devotion, their faith, their belief. If you doubt on that level, you have nothing else.

If you're following the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga) even when you doubt, you can fall back on your own knowledge. You can go back to the things you know, you have read, you have studied. If you're a Karma yogi, one who likes to work for the Lord and feels that He is doing it through you, if you fall, you still have done some work that you can go back to and see some result of your actions.

But the devotional person doesn't have anything else left. However, that is the fastest way to God, the devotional way. The moment you open yourself to that energy with devotion, you're connected right away. You don't have to concentrate that "I'm doing it because I'm submissive, or God is doing it through me," or in the case of the path of gaining knowledge, "Yes, this makes sense." In the path of devotion, you're completely, right away, in touch with the Spirit.

Sometimes too much devotion creates problems, because they become too dogmatic about it. Some say that religion created more problems and killings on earth than anything else. It's not really the religion, or God that's doing it, it's the people who don't want to expand their consciousness. They don't want to stretch their consciousness to cover everyone, and that creates wars and sufferings.

For instance, "Whoever does not follow the Bible is a heretic." When it comes down to it, that means then, "His blood is OK, I can kill him." God never says that. This is too much zealousness, too much zeal for false gods. Yet if they see Esa in everyone and they love that Essence in everyone, then they don't separate one from another. They don't say, "I am Christian, you are Jewish, you are Moslem, you are Hindu," etc. Everyone is Esa. So they say, "Oh, you are Esa, you are Esa and I love all of you, because you're the Essence of God, in His image. Esa was the Essence of God, we are one."

Then we expand ourselves to cover the whole earth and bring that unity which is necessary for us to have. Look at the earth right now. What's happening to it? There is so much disunity because there are too many zealous people. Even economical zealots, their god is economy. Everything is based on economic theories. Some people are business zealots. They want business to take over the earth. They think that is the only way it should be.

So, it is good to have devotion but it is not good to be zealots and be narrow about what you believe. The Greatest Sign shatters that narrow part of the human. You just can't separate yourself from others. You cannot love Maitreya and not love The Greatest Sign. And if you love The Greatest Sign you have to love the whole universe. That is when unity comes to humanity. Then we can all be zealots bringing the whole universe to Pure Consciousness. That kind of zealousness is from knowledge because you don't separate anyone from anyone else, or any part of the universe. Anything with a universal scope is good.

Question: Well, there was a period of time of around 500 years: Buddha was born and like 500 years later, Christ and then 500 years later, Muhammad. And then we've had a long stretch of no Saviors, nobody with the Light. Why has it taken so long?

Maitreya: Actually, according to The Greatest Sign, there are, between Muhammad and our period, two other beings who came to earth and brought great Light. Of course, there was a long stretch between 600 AD, when Muhammad came and 1800AD, which was around 1,200 years when not many great revelations came.

That was the real period of ignorance. That was the real Kali Yuga years on earth, because ignorance came to its fullest. You could see in Europe, the religions persecuting people. The whole truth actually was lost for 1,200 years. Now we're coming out of it.

Question: Yes, we're right at the junction where it changes. According to the Kali Yuga, there will be a major war, the big world war, to begin within the next two or three years, the early 1990's. Do you believe that?

Maitreya: Well, Armageddon is also prophesied in the Bible. We all are for peace. We're all for bringing the Kingdom without bloodshed. If someone can come and do it, I'm the first person who's going to follow.

There are a lot of people saying, there's another Maitreya who is going to do it overnight. I say great, we would all love to see that happen. But it is not according to the prophecies. According to the prophecies, we have to go through a period of purification. Although wars are terrible and the suffering they bring to humanity is terrible, yet suffering is a kind of purification.

It seems like humanity is more receptive to the Truth after a great suffering. They go toward the Truth in suffering. When they are in trouble they say, "Oh God, please help me out and I'll be your servant from now on." When the disaster is lifted, they forget about God.

So if everyone came today and said, "We accept that these are all religions of One God, there's One God, there's One Earth, we have to share it with one another and live like brothers and sisters," then what are we going to have? Peace on earth, aren't we? But how many people are willing to accept this right now?

Audience: Well, it's not going to happen until after the big destruction.

Maitreya: So though that is unfortunate, it sounds like the earth is going toward that end. Also probably people on earth are willing to submit to such a Plan but are also very attached to their governments, leaders, religions, traditions, etc. The governments are like people, they have relationships with one another based on their karmas. That creates even more karma for one another. They cannot overcome this karma unless they really sit down with one another, and come to the point of realizing that this is not the way. It is not working. We are destroying ourselves. We are destroying our resources and we're destroying our people. There should be a better way.

We believe that we are representing an alternative to humanity. This is the way to do it. This is how the religions of the world are unified. This is how the Communities of Light can create a system which can bring peace on earth based on people, not on any political system or any economic theory, etc. So that is what we present to them. When they reach the point where they say, "OK, our way is not the way to do it, now we are ready" -- then we can say, "This is the alternative." Then they would say, "Yes." If we can create Communities of Light, if we can have some system going on by then, then they will see, "Yes, it is working. People are sharing with one another."

For instance, we had some people from Quebec here two weeks ago. They were one with us. There was a community which was one. We shared, there was joy when we were together and it was very beautiful. There was no feeling of, "This person is from this country, that country" or any barrier of language. We couldn't even speak much with each other. They spoke French and we didn't know French. Of course, we had a person who translated everything.

Most of the time we didn't even talk but we understood one another very well. We probably understood much better without talking because sometimes even talking brings more confusion. You mean one thing that you express in words, and the other person picks it up and feels something else from it. If you feel each other then probably you can understand one another even better.

So in a sense, unfortunately, such a suffering seems imminent on earth.

Question: OK, well, your Communities of Light concept, I really don't understand how that's going to work. If you're talking about twelve people and if as you said, they're not living in a commune type situation, that they're dotted around the community, what is going to be any different than what we're already doing? Like in Las Vegas, there are twelve that come to the group and we're all dotted around the community. We're all working jobs and going about our daily lives but we're trying to incorporate spirituality, God, into everything we do. What is the difference than what you're doing?

Maitreya: Well, the ideal community is one where the people live together, close by. Actually, it consists of 12x12x12 people -- around 2,000 people, in each community. These communities themselves have three levels of selection of leadership. Inside the communities, every twelve people -- or ideally six couples -- gather together and create a unit in the community. Each couple will have one unit of living space, like a house. The end of these houses will shape a six angular place, which will be covered as a meeting place, or a temple, or a meditation room, or something like that.

So this unit will not only have privacy by separate houses but they are united behind their houses as one unit. They have a place of meeting. They have a place of worship, or meditation, for discussion, etc. So they create a very strong bond with one another. At the same time, they are not in one another's way. They have their own separate homes. So, they have privacy and they can meditate by themselves also.

Then twelve such units create the second level of the community, which becomes 144 adult people in the community. Then twelve of such twelve people create a community. Whoever emerges from this as the person selected from the community, represents that community to other communities that also are formed.

When there are 12x12x12 people, then they can have a community center, where they can go and meditate and also have a place for discussing the problems of the greater community, or to coordinate between the communities.

Also we can build the Temple that is proposed and is in the shape of The Greatest Sign, and we can build universities around it. These universities will not only teach the conventional wisdom and teaching; they also will teach Spirit and science based on Spirit which is the Metatronic Science, healing powers and everything that makes sense and humanity can use for its betterment.

So eventually we will have science that doesn't have any by-products that we now have, like pollution. We're going to create an earth, pollution-free. Right now we have a lot of science that we can use, like electromagnetics, or fission, or sun, or all those things that can be used for the betterment of humanity, without having the side effects of conventional science. So it's a great Plan.

Presently, if the people don't want to come together and live in one place, don't have the resources, don't feel they want to be in a community, can't form any shape of a community that they feel very comfortable with, just to start with, they can live separately as you are doing in Las Vegas. However, eventually the goal is to create that kind of community we just explained.

Also, not everyone will be in these communities even then -- the whole earth will not be in communities. There will still be people who don't want to be in communities, they want to live out of communities.

Audience: Well, more and more people are interested in communities, though, and they're springing up in different parts of the country. When I was in Ananda, I shared a room with a lady who was a Quaker from Pennsylvania. Her daughter and son-in-law are trying to open a community in Pennsylvania. So what she's been doing is traveling around the country, visiting all these different communities, to see what is working here and what isn't working, etc. Of course, being Quakers, they are still into chopping wood and carrying water.

Maitreya: Not in our community. Actually we are based very much on the new technology. We emphasize computers.

Audience: Well, that's the way Ananda is. They live a very cloistered life yet they use computers, and they fly to Italy and they're doing all these things.

Maitreya: Actually we let machines chop our wood, and we meditate more. Again, not every community is a Community of Light. The community based on the Eternal Divine Path, which unifies all the religions of the world, concentrates on the spirit of the person, believes that it is the answer to human suffering and the end of it, is a Community of Light.

Question: OK. Can I talk about The Greatest Sign with you? I have a lot of trouble with The Greatest Sign. Even when I tried to read your explanation of it in the book, forgive me, you get very wordy and I wish you'd just say what it is. Now, can we just go around it, point by point? Each one represents a great religion of the world. So the cross over here represents Christianity ()?

Maitreya: Right.

Question: OK. Well, what is the Star of David down there ())?

Maitreya: That represents the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth. You see, I've probably explained The Greatest Sign around 300-400 times, and Sarah has been with me 90% of the time at least. Every time I explain it, it comes out differently and every time it makes sense. Every time it gives the Message but in a different light.

Explaining The Greatest Sign is like explaining God. You cannot explain God without really feeling you're confusing the subject. So I'm not trying to get wordy but it's very hard to put it into words.

Audience: This is my particular way of doing things. I have to strip away all the unnecessary things. And I have to get right down to what is at the bottom of it.

Maitreya: Sure, OK. Let's get to the bottom of it.

Question: The Star of David you say, is Heaven on Earth? But is there a religion that that is connected to?

Maitreya: Yes, it's the religion of the Children of Israel.

Question: The Jewish religion then?

Maitreya: It is the Jewish religion, but the Children of Israel, according to our teaching, is more expanded than just Jewish people. That's why I said, Children of Israel ().

Question: Now the bottom. That one bothers me ().

Maitreya: The very bottom one actually is two signs.

Audience: Yes, it's three signs.

Maitreya: No, it's two signs.

Audience: It looks like three to me.

Maitreya: She knows The Greatest Sign better than me [all laugh].

Audience: You've got the ying and yang and the...

Maitreya: Actually the ying and yang is the first sign in The Greatest Sign, which represents the Mystical Paths. The Mystical Paths cover any path, or religion, or belief that tries to connect the individual to the universe. So the I-Ching is the first sign in The Greatest Sign.

As you see, it is two sides of God, which is male and female, or satva guna and tama guna. There's a dot in the center which is red and that is raja guna or energy, movement. Without energy, nothing would have moved in this universe. If there wasn't energy I couldn't even move my hand, it would just be stuck there forever. So there is energy. That is what most people miss in the I-Ching because that is the same thing that makes the I-Ching move. So this first sign relates to all mystical religions, any religion or belief that tries to find a relationship between man and God.

Audience: Metaphysical.

Maitreya: Hinduism, Buddhism, whatever else (). The second is the Children of Abraham (). The third sign is Christianity ().

The fourth, on top, is the submission of Islam (). The fifth is the Baha'i religion ().

Audience: I was surprised that you included that because it has not seemed like that large or that important a religion. A lot of the areas of the world didn't realize how important it was.

Maitreya: Actually these last three religions do not have as many followers as the first four religions. The reason is the first four have been here longer, and actually these last three compliment the first four.

Question: Now I understand that the three go together that are going up, and the three go together that are going down?

Maitreya: There is some relationship between them but not necessarily. No one of them is more important than the other. Each of them have their own place in God's Plan.

Question: OK. This is the Baha'i faith? Nine points ()?

Maitreya: And the nine-pointed star is the symbol for universalism. When you go through these five steps, you become an Elect ().

Question: OK. So where does this start then?

Maitreya: The start is the I-Ching at the very bottom ().

Question: The rest of the sign at the very bottom though ()?

Maitreya: The rest of the first sign is the Expanding Lotus and Lotustica, which when you put them altogether, you see this bottom sign is in the image of God, which is in the very center (). When you go through the six steps you really become in the image of God. Then your will and His Will are one, not before that.

Question: So you start there () and you go around?

Maitreya: Yes, you start from the I-Ching in the horizontal position. Horizontal means not awakened. By spiritual practices you awaken your spiritual forces. Then you try to create the Communities of Light (), to create the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth. In order to create the Communities of Light, not being self-centered, or sacrifice, is necessary (). Even after sacrificing, you might become attached to your sacrifice. That's when submission () comes in. You sacrifice, yet it is really God who is doing it through you. You are not the doer.

After being submissive, you become a Universalist (), God is the universe. When you go through these five steps, you become an Elect (). Such are the people who will help the whole universe to reach Pure Consciousness. They themselves also reached Pure Consciousness, or are in the image of God, and they know the Will of God.

Question: Would you explain the Elect sign to me -- why it has the rising sun and the swastika in the middle of it?

Maitreya: First of all you don't call that swastika. It is called Lotustica.

Audience: I know, but that's what it looks like to me.

Audience: Ohhhhh.

Audience: That's beautiful.

Maitreya: It is beautiful! Do you understand it now?

Audience: Much better.

Maitreya: Good. Also there is some truth that these three [second (), fourth () and sixth () signs] are very much related, and these three [first (), third () and fifth () signs] are also related because these three (second, fourth and sixth) are very much related to the Kingdom and Laws. If you remember in the Hebrew teaching, a lot of laws came through Moses. In Islam, Muhammad brought a lot of laws for the Moslems. Also in this sign (), the person who brought it was very much into laws and regulations of how to conduct day-to-day life. These three (first, third and fifth) are very much devotional, the Spirit moves in them. Our teaching is a balance between them (God in the fullest).

Question: Who brought the Elect sign? All I got was Elect.

Maitreya: The Elect sign was brought by a gentleman in India by the name of Shrii Shrii Anandamurti-ji. I was first initiated in that organization. That was the first time that I started meditating. He is the person who prepared the way, and my first encounter with spirituality in this lifetime was with him. He was my Guru in a sense. Of course, I've never seen him, I've never visited him. I've seen his picture only but that was enough for me.

Question: Have you heard of Baba-ji?

Maitreya: He is also called Baba. In India there are so many Babas.

Audience: The Baba-ji I'm talking about is the Master that they say has retained a physical body now for 300 years.

Maitreya: I see. The one of Yogananda...

Audience: Yes, he came to Yogananda, and he came to the lady that began the teaching of the Inner Christ Movement. They say he still appears to people, that he communes with Jesus, and that this is all the teachings that came down from Jesus to him and then through him to Yogananda and to different people, the teaching of the Christ.

Maitreya: Well, I don't dwell on those things too much because, if you have met such a person and he appeared to you, it's your experience. It might not be my experience. I usually have a problem with people explaining their experiences with other people. Other people feel if one person experienced such a thing, then I have to also experience it. And if I'm not experiencing it, either there is something wrong with me, or that one person is lying.

Audience: Well, you're supposed to know everything.

Maitreya: Right, so in a sense, if that's true and the people experienced it, great, that's wonderful for them. If he's of the same Spirit as we are, he is our brother and we love him. I'm sure he's helping us in some way. If such an experience is just a creation of someone's imagination, then we shouldn't dwell on it. That's why I usually say, Let's concentrate on creating the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth and if such a thing is true then we will all know, he will join us in the celebration and the marriage ceremony of the Kingdom.

So I have heard about him, Baba-ji, actually I have heard about a lot of things.

Audience: You know when I was at Ananda they showed this wonderful film about the life of Jesus. They went to India and went to the temple where St. Esa had gone, which was Jesus during his period between twelve and thirty when he had gone to India.

Maitreya: Good, you know that his name is Esa.

Audience: And it was interesting to me because they documented all this and they told the story of the man who had gone there. He had heard about the story of St. Esa and he went to look into the records there at the temple. They told him, "No, you'll have to come back another time." Now he had traveled around the world to get there and they told him, "No, you'll have to come back another time. The second time you come, we will show you the records." So he thanked them and he left. And on the way down the mountain, the burrow or whatever he was riding, tripped and broke a leg and he hurt himself, he had a broken leg too. So they had to carry him back to the monastery. So he said, "Well, I'm here for the second time now, so please show me the records." So they did. He spent weeks there recuperating with his broken leg. So he wrote down everything that they had in the records of St. Esa and the story followed, everything. It was even in the records that they heard when St. Esa went back to Jerusalem that he had been crucified. It was a wonderful thing.

Maitreya: Yes, he did go to Persia, to Pakistan, to India, to Tibet and he studied with all the people there. Actually if you look at the teaching of Esa -- I'd rather call him Esa because that was his real name, and also he had another name which cannot be pronounced, of course -- his teaching sounds very much like Krishna's teaching in the Bhagavad-Gita: "I am the way and whoever comes to me will reach the Father-God." It's very, very similar. When you read the New Testament and the Bhagavad-Gita, you see so much similarity there. It's the same Spirit.

Audience: And much of the New Testament, he was quoting directly from the Old Testament. He knew that by heart, he had studied it so well. Often when people asked him questions he just answered them with Scripture that was right out of the teachings that he had studied in the temple.

Maitreya: I don't believe that he really studied much. He just picked up from the Spirit. He was their revealer for many lifetimes!

Audience: Well, he quoted pretty close.

Maitreya: The doctors were saying, "This twelve year old boy knows a lot." He knew, not of the book. I don't think anyone can learn all these things by reading only, but the Spirit of the Father comes through him, tells him the truth.

Question: It seems to me there's also a connection somehow between all of these points and the chakras in our body.

Maitreya: There is. Actually, where is the first awakening in the spiritual path? It is in the first chakra (), where the kundalini starts moving.

Question: That's what I thought. So, then the second chakra?

Maitreya: The second chakra is the passion for worldly things. So that is where the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth () is.

Question: And then the third is all that emotional...?

Maitreya: Just remember Esa and his teaching. He is the three, the third sign (). He tripped three times. He was tempted three times. He arose the third day. If you look at his life, the three is so important. That's why he is the third sign. The third sign is related to the third chakra. It's very hard to sacrifice but eventually you learn to sacrifice. Then you go to the heart chakra, which is the complete unconditional Love of Christ. Usually they show him with a fleshly heart in the middle of his chest in a lot of statues. So that is the third sign. In the fourth sign (), when you are going from the fourth to the fifth, which is the ethereal level, submission comes very easily.

You know you and God are touching one another on the fifth level. Yet, still you are not One. You know you're submissive, He's a Spirit that works through you. So you are still concentrating on surrendering, you want to surrender yourself to God. All the time you see, "It's not me, You are the doer," yet you forget that He's the doer. You do it again and you say, "I did it." You forget and you remember, "No, I'm not the doer, You are the doer." That's surrendering. The eventual feeling is submission. You always know that He's the doer, you're not the doer. You are a channel for Him. In the fifth level there is no struggle left and no doubts enter. You know God is everything. You become a Universalist (), belonging to no small portion of the universe but to the whole. The sixth () is the sixth chakra which is the third eye, which is...

Audience: Clear vision.

Maitreya: Everything is God and I am part of It. Yet, there is an I left between me and Him. I do this, I do that. He does this, He does that. And it goes in and out all the time. You just feel you and God are still One, yet not completely. You still have your "i" a little bit.

Question: Actually the center sign then is like the crown chakra which opens?

Maitreya: That's right. That is Pure Consciousness (). When the Oneness is complete and you are just a drop that falls into the ocean, there's nothing left but Him. So again, the seven seals and seven chakras. Still when you reach Pure Consciousness, you see this Pure Consciousness is a little smaller () than this one (). Father is always the Creator.

Question: Yes, that's what I was going to say. There's another three chakras up here, right?

Maitreya: Actually there is a part of the universe which is completely unconscious of itself. It's completely in Bliss, no consciousness of creation. When some people come in touch with that level, they call them Majzob. Majzob in Arabic and Persian means to be absorbed into something. So they are completely absorbed into Father. Many call them crazies. I say, they are really crazy about God. Yet they cannot stay there very long, that is the thing. God pushes them back to earth to help His creation. So that's why the Bible says, "I spue you out of my mouth."

Audience: If you're lukewarm.

Maitreya: If you're lukewarm, yes.

Audience: Better you should be either hot or cold.

Maitreya: And why are you lukewarm? Why are you not hot or cold? Because you reached so close to God, Pure Consciousness, that you are no longer affected by the external world. The external world has no affect on your body, you are neither cold nor hot. So He spues you out, back to the earth, to do His Will. So that's why I've said many times, "Just trying to reach Pure Consciousness by techniques and forgetting about this world, will not get you there. You will be spued out and you'll have to come back and work for the Kingdom."

Audience: We have to serve.

Maitreya: That's right. So then the sooner we create the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth, the sooner we go back home. So let's get on with it.

Audience: Well, the Kingdom Of Heaven is within.

Maitreya: You forgot. I just explained, there are three Kingdoms. How people like to forget about these two other Kingdoms [all laugh]. "No, I don't want to see about this one, just tell me about this one and this one." But there is another one. Even Esa said, "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven."

Audience: Yes, that was his whole gospel, the Kingdom Of Heaven is at hand, it's within you. This is the story about the Kingdom Of Heaven. Over and over the parables were about the Kingdom Of Heaven and how to obtain it.

Maitreya: Of course, as I said, going through these five steps will bring the Kingdom Of Heaven Within you. If you don't have the Kingdom Of Heaven Within you, you can't even approach to start the Communities of Light. You have to become the fountain of love before you can become a center in a community. If Kriananda wasn't advanced enough he couldn't have attracted so many people about him.

However, all these should lead to establishment of the Kingdom Of Heaven On Earth.